Bucking the Boundaries of D&D's Combat-Driven System to Weave an Engaging Narrative

My favorite season of Dimension 20 is Burrow's End. Each season of Dropout's tabletop role-playing show is consistently fantastic, exploring various genres and TTRPG systems while showcasing talented cast members and Game Masters from the improv, acting, and tabletop industry. Burrow's End, however, stands out by delving into familiar mechanics and drawing inspiration from popular books like Watership Down and Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH to craft a gripping 10-episode story. The players, role-playing as members of a stoat family in Eastern Europe during the '80s, are tempted with the power fantasy central to D&D, knowing that giving in to it could perpetuate the real-world cycle of violence and fascism. Horrifying, heartfelt, and humorous at times, Burrow's End is a story that sticks with you.

Our Website: I'd like to inquire about Phoebe's lich energy in terms of theme and gameplay.

Aabria Iyengar: Absolutely. While there may not be a direct equivalent in D&D, Phoebe's focus is definitely lich-like and shapeshifty, not easily defined by conventional means. The world's lore and magic can be understood from a human perspective, but there are also elements that are purely magical.

Yes, very lich-like and parasitic, but with a distinct approach compared to the chipmunks' control of the bear. The bear served as a foreshadowing of consumption, takeover, and exploitation, which became more personal as the story progressed. When we reached Phoebe, it was clear that this was a fusion unlike anything we had seen before.

The battle map featuring the bear caught me off guard while watching Burrow's End Episode 2. I was impressed and excited, especially because battle maps are rarely used in your games due to your preference for theater of the mind. However, seeing the intricate map in Episode 2 depicting a bear controlled by infected chipmunks in a mech-style setup made me curious about the underlying purpose. I knew that you wouldn't use a battle map without reason, which added to the unease and intrigue of the scene.

A part of it was about creating a visceral memory by having the players spend time inside the bear, rather than just describing it as a theater of the mind. The goal was for the detailed battle map to create an intimate connection that would carry over, making encounters with characters like Phoebe feel more familiar. This is what I love about the [post-show] Adventuring Party - it gives me a space to defend the First Stoats' philosophy, which is a weird desire of mine.

That was funny. That was funny to watch.

Hello, I'm also a Dungeon Master. I understand the feeling. Sometimes you need to double down, just to see if you can sway any players to your side.

When we immediately jumped into the Adventuring Party and everyone was like, "Oh, is that what Phoebe's doing?" as the game master, it was satisfying to see it have an impact. The battle map set the stage for what we were going to do and allowed for some really intense and enjoyable moments. It was my first battle map in the Dimension 20 Dome, and I wanted to go all out. If you saw my first Dirty Laundry episode, you'll know a bit about my background in this. It was a thrilling and satisfying way to get wild and messy in the space. It also felt like the culmination of a lot of things I wanted to achieve. It was so rewarding.

Iyengar is joined by Brennan Lee Mulligan, Erika Ishii, Siobhan Thompson, Isabella Roland, Rashawn Nadine Scott, and Jasper William Cartwright in the cast of Burrow's End. Exploring the concept of undeath, the decision to focus on chipmunks piloting bears and a nasty stoat human puppeting AK-47-wielding zombie guys was made to address various forms of compulsion. The idea of "What if death isn't the end?" is particularly terrifying, especially in the cosmology of D&D where the afterlife is a known quantity and people come back on a regular basis. Rest is not guaranteed once your heart stops, adding a layer of fear to the concept of undeath.

Let's discuss this in terms of players - there are two things that can bring a character back from the dead: love and revenge. We'll talk about Tula's love, her beauty, and her obligation, but also about revenge, unfinished business, and being used for someone else's purposes when you're down. To me, being brought back and controlled by someone else is terrifying. I don't mind coming back as a zombie if I'm in control, but being puppeted by a crazy necromancer? I hate that, and now we're going to explore that feeling right away.

In the final episode, you touched on the aspect of undeath and how it can rob characters of the ability to rest - the ultimate loss of agency over their lives. I want to know why you addressed such a topic when the life of the beloved character Lukas was at stake. Why did you tempt Brennen with that option? He might have taken it!

There was a moment where I realized that the danger had not truly passed, despite the feeling that the DM would tie up all loose ends and we could move on to our epilogue. It seemed that Tula and Ava's desire to return and finish what they had started echoed a larger theme of the season - the ongoing conflict between "us" and "them." Initially, "us" was just the family emerging from the Red Warren, with the Lakura as the opposing "them." However, as they discovered Last Bast, the circle expanded. With the downfall of the First Stoats, everyone in Last Bast became "us," while the humans became the new "them." The epilogues then highlighted the constant expansion of the concept of "us."

Before we continue, I want to challenge you to dig deeper into the opportunity presented here. Even though we have the capability to assist and uplift, there's a moment of hesitation that adds depth to the internal conflict. Tula's struggle between rest and duty, and the concept of offering something to others that you may never receive in return, is a beautiful and powerful theme. Ultimately, the unexpected appearance of "Lukas" during filming ended up being a heartwarming and memorable touch.

Crazy how life comes at you.

The first season of Dimension 20, Burrow's End, features a unique dynamic where every player character is part of the same family. Fans are curious if there will be a Season 2. The conclusion of Burrow's End opens up new and fascinating possibilities, with humans now competing in the Olympics alongside sentient stoats, some of which have the ability to wield a form of undeath. The potential for a Season 2 is there, but it would be a genre-bending story that continues to expand the world. While the story would feel different, there is still a lot of untapped potential, with the stakes becoming more global and humans coming to terms with the unique abilities of the stoats. Magic now exists in the world, but only these stoats in Eastern Europe possess it, leading to a re-evaluation of the world as we know it.

I want Season 2 to be Rise of the Planet of the Apes style.

Yes!

There is an underlying theme in many TTRPGs, especially D&D 5e, where the main characters often resolve their conflicts through combat, sometimes resulting in the defeat of their enemies. Fundamentally, D&D operates on a belief in the power of strength. Considering this, and reflecting on the season as a whole, how much did D&D 5e influence the themes of personal power, conflicting ideologies, and control?

It all began with the story and the overarching theme. It started as a lighthearted joke about a cyberpunk version of Watership Down, and then I took it home and realized, "Wait a minute. Although it started as a joke, there might be something more meaningful here. The fear associated with the cyberpunk setting no longer holds the same weight." The cyberpunk vibe is now more of a fun concept, and the fears it originally addressed in the '80s are no longer as relevant.

The societal focus on the fear of authoritarianism and the ambiguous nature of defining fascism has led to a struggle in understanding, particularly in relation to the concept of trading away freedom for security. This ambiguity is reflected in the difficulty the stoats have in understanding the human arc of world events, as well as the challenge of navigating a battle-focused system in D&D when the enemy is not clearly defined. Power leveling becomes a key aspect of addressing this struggle, with character progression serving as a tangible representation of their development.

I continuously equipped them with more powerful weapons and increased their magical abilities. Initially, they were only able to choose from half-caster class options. It wasn't until they reached the corium core inside Reactor Charlie that they were granted access to full caster classes. Despite this, I still presented them with challenging and unusual scenarios. The Phoebe monster was an obvious opponent to face, but the battle itself was unconventional. These adversaries were also technically part of the surroundings, making it unclear how to approach the situation. I wanted to explore whether they would rely solely on brute force when faced with difficulties. This was the aspect I wanted to emphasize in the context of D&D, and I believe we had some engaging and thought-provoking discussions about it.

Choosing [D&D 5e] was a deliberate decision. It provided an opportunity to examine how this system excels in handling power, but also tends to encourage a tendency to view problems as triggers for combat. Knowing that our group was comprised of excellent storytellers, I was confident in my ability to present them with challenges and ask, "Will you continue to resort to violence?" This is why there were always alternative solutions to the problems we presented—for example, the option to heal the disease in the bear instead of killing it. There were consistently different objectives and approaches to resolving these issues. Both the D&D system itself and I were constantly prompting them, "You are stoats, you are predators. Will you resort to exploitation once again?" This theme became a fascinating arc throughout the season.

The breakout star of the season was karate kid Jaysohn, played by Siobhan Thompson. I had a feeling this would be the "I've chosen violence" Dimension 20 season for you. You did incorporate some D&D 5e elements for A Court of Fey & Flowers, but the focus was more on the rules of Good Society. And before that, you used the Kids on Brooms system for Misfits & Magic. Both systems emphasize roleplay over combat.

Absolutely. For A Court Of Fey & Flowers, the fifth edition D&D content was added as a grounding point for the table. "Hey, just remember you guys are essentially the fey that are sometimes in normal D&D campaigns." That's why we had BINX as a warlock patron. They all exist in the D&D world, just in the Feywild side of it. So they have access to that kit and have that common understanding, but the most interesting things they do will not be fighting. They're all powerful. They can kick the teeth out of each other. But what they actually care about is their relative standing in regards to one another. So D&D was just there, but was not the priority.

At Burrow's End, running D&D was an opportunity to put our own spin on the system and explore the boundaries of the game. As a Game Master, it can be challenging to navigate the unpredictable actions of the players, but does this dynamic mirror our own feelings about work and the significance of the protagonists in our game?

I am drawn to the concept of the "fantasy of purpose." People always seek meaning in everything, including myself as a storyteller. There is a tendency to feel that everything must have a personal significance. Even when running a game, it is possible for it to feel disconnected from one's thoughts and emotions in the moment. However, I have not recently experienced a game that did not defy conventional structures and have an impact.

I believe that family, priorities, and how one responds to the unknown are always key elements. These reactions to the unknown, whether it's fighting, fleeing, freezing, or being friendly, always feel deeply personal, even when playing as magical creatures in a forest. That's why it feels so natural and rewarding to engage and participate alongside everyone else who shares the sentiment of, "Yes, as the DM, I am the world that you are encountering, and all of your adversaries." But I also believe that a good DM is able to empathize and understand, and is there to support and play alongside you, especially during informal moments. It becomes more challenging if you don't feel that connection with your players and your group in that way. So, yes, absolutely.

This interview was edited for both brevity and readability.

Editor's P/S

As a Dungeon Master myself, I am in awe of Aabria Iyengar's mastery in crafting an engaging narrative that goes beyond the combat-driven mechanics of Dungeons & Dragons. Burrow's End is a testament to the versatility and depth of the Fifth Edition system, showcasing how it can be adapted to create compelling stories that resonate with players. Iyengar's ability to weave a rich tapestry of themes, such as exploitation and the dangers of an us-versus-them mentality, elevates Burrow's End from a mere game of dice rolls to a thought-provoking exploration of human nature.

The interview with Aabria Iyengar provided fascinating insights into the creative process behind Burrow's End. Her explanation of Phoebe's lich-like energy and the significance of the battle map in Episode 2 demonstrate her meticulous attention to detail and her commitment to creating a truly immersive experience for her players. Iyengar's passion for storytelling and her willingness to push the boundaries of traditional D&D gameplay make her an inspiration to Dungeon Masters everywhere. Burrow's End is a must-watch for any fan of tabletop role-playing games, and I highly recommend checking out the interview to gain a deeper understanding of the creative genius behind this incredible season.