Unraveling the Evolution of 'Trick 'r Treat's Sam: From Animated Short to Feature to Sequel

The Big Picture

Michael Dougherty joined Perri Nemiroff for a Trick 'r Treat post-screening Q&A as part of Scary Perri's Horror Series with Landmark Theatres.

Dougherty discussed the difficulties in obtaining approval for the project, shared additional information about Sam's background, and underscored the significance of storyboards in the film-making process. Additionally, he provided an update on Trick 'r Treat 2 and hinted at his concept for a potential Krampus sequel.

In addition to the incredible opportunity to curate my own horror screening series, I was fortunate enough to include one of my all-time favorite movies, Michael Dougherty's Trick 'r Treat, in the lineup.

The film faced numerous challenges in its journey to the theaters. Despite facing repeated rejections during its search for funding, it ultimately managed to make it to production. However, even after its completion, it was not granted a traditional big screen release. After premiering in 2007 and gaining recognition on the festival circuit, Warner Bros. decided to shelve it until 2009. Even then, it was only released directly to DVD.

However, when a movie is as exceptional as this, it is bound to gain popularity, and Trick 'r Treat proved just that. Not only did it become a beloved cult classic, but it also became a Halloween tradition. Every spooky season, the film is screened again on the big screen, with Sam, the iconic character, joining the ranks of Freddy, Jason, Michael, and Leatherface in Halloween-themed stores.

Ever since I first saw Trick 'r Treat, I have been following Dougherty's career closely. I've had the pleasure of discussing his later releases, such as Krampus, but we never had a dedicated conversation about Trick 'r Treat until now. Being able to attend a post-screening Q&A with Dougherty at Landmark Westwood was a dream come true. We talked about the film's journey from an animated short to a Halloween classic, and Dougherty kindly entertained my extensive list of specific questions, as well as my requests for updates on a Trick 'r Treat sequel.

You can access the complete chat, which includes the audience Q&A segment, by watching the video provided above this article. Alternatively, you can read my interview with Dougherty in transcript format below.

PERRI NEMIROFF: Are you still incredibly passionate about Halloween? Can you recall the initial moment that sparked your love for it – your first treasured Halloween experience?

MICHAEL DOUGHERTY: One of my earliest recollections involves carving a jack-o’-lantern alongside my father, which served as inspiration for the Charlie and the severed head tale. Regrettably, my personal experience didn't quite match the story. Nevertheless, residing in Ohio allowed me to vividly remember carving a pumpkin, placing it in the window, taking a step back, and admiring it from the street. From that moment on, my enthusiasm for Halloween only intensified.

Was it a scary face?

DOUGHERTY: It was a scary face.

This is precisely what I anticipated from you.

Once again, your fascination with Halloween is apparent. While I believe you adhere to most of the guidelines, let's imagine that Sam caught you breaking one rule - which rule would be the most probable?

DOUGHERTY: It wouldn’t happen. It just wouldn't happen.

I believe that.

My Halloween decorations were up in my yard haunt by the end of September. My house has earned a reputation as the neighborhood spot where parents and their kids walk by. In fact, one woman even confessed that her children wouldn't pass my house outside of Halloween. On Halloween night, my friends and I dress up and hand out candy, delighting in terrifying the trick-or-treaters. Some children end up in tears while their parents find amusement in the situation, creating unique and lasting memories for the little ones. It makes me wish I could have experienced trick-or-treating at your house as a child. It's a core memory that I would truly treasure.

Let's revisit the initial stages of this script. In your opinion, what stands out as the major difference between the first draft and the final film that we now appreciate?

DOUGHERTY: That's an excellent question. In the original draft, each story was completely independent from one another. Actually, in the very first draft, I don't think there were many overlapping or interconnected moments at all. What I did was combine four separate short stories that I had written during my college years. When I first arrived in LA, like everyone else, I aspired to be a screenwriter or filmmaker. However, when you go to Starbucks and see that everyone else has the same dream, it can be quite overwhelming. So, I thought of a way to "cheat" a little. I decided to take these short stories I had previously written, which all coincidentally took place on Halloween, and incorporate the character I had created for my animated short film...

So Sam began as an animated short, exclusively hand-drawn using traditional cell animation techniques. The entire process spanned nine months, with each frame meticulously created by hand without any involvement of computers. Subsequently, an idea struck me- why not incorporate this character from my animated short in a similar manner to the Cryptkeeper? Consequently, the initial version of the draft leaned more towards the conventional anthology style.

Image via Michael Dougherty

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Were you always set on these specific stories or did you consider mixing and matching, contemplating which ones to include?

DOUGHERTY: The stories remained the same throughout. The only slight variation was that initially, the rock quarry scene took place in a cemetery, with the kids playing Ghost in the Graveyard or something similar. Originally, the ending revealed that the group of kids had tricked one girl into going to the cemetery because she was actually dead and had forgotten about it. It's not a bad twist, but considering the recent popularity of movies like The Sixth Sense and The Others, I realized that the surprise element of "you're actually dead" had become somewhat of a cliché.

One version appears to be a simpler production task compared to the other - the act of sending a bus plunging into a quarry.

DOUGHERTY: Yes, indeed! However, witnessing a short bus dive off a cliff is quite an extraordinary sight. And I highly doubt such an event will be witnessed again. [Laughs] I mean, who wouldn't be intrigued by the spectacle of a short bus hurtling over the edge?

The other variation was that the werewolf pack was not initially all female. It was originally a mix of males and females. However, I found it more intriguing to have an all-female werewolf pack. Female werewolves are rarely portrayed, except in Ginger Snaps. They are considered quite unusual.

It's true, but my favorite segment is still "School Bus Massacre".

Originally, you didn't plan on directing this project. It involved four other notable individuals - Stan Winston, Tobe Hooper, John Carpenter, and George Romero - which I find quite astonishing.

DOUGHERTY: Yes, Stan Winston was the first producer to show interest in the script and expressed his desire to bring it to life. When I arrived in LA, he was the first person to advise me, saying, "Although you're involved in animation, you should really consider directing films." He became my first mentor in the industry. So, I went ahead and wrote the initial draft, handed it to Stan, and he responded with, "I love this. It reminds me of Creepshow and Tales from the Crypt. Let me see if I can get other horror filmmakers on board and then we can pitch it to studios." Later on, he reached out to me and said, "Alright, I've secured Tobe Hooper and George Romero. I'm in talks with Carpenter as well. I'll direct one segment, but you might have to meet with John Carpenter personally to convince him to join." I was taken aback and asked, "What on earth do you mean? You want me to persuade John Carpenter to direct a segment of this project?"

I'll never forget the time I had to go to The Egyptian to meet with Carpenter while he was screening The Thing. We both shared the same agent who insisted I discuss my script with him. I was incredibly nervous, feeling like I had to convince a deity to work with me. I approached him humbly while he was smoking and asked if he'd be interested. Surprisingly, he agreed. Excitedly, we took the script to various studios, hoping to find a buyer. Unfortunately, every studio we approached rejected it except for one. They claimed that vampires, werewolves, and zombies were too old-fashioned for audiences. As perplexing as it is, I'm actually grateful for those rejections because they led to the unique movie we have now.

DOUGHERTY: This movie has taught me the value of patience and persistence. I have mastered the art of turning setbacks into opportunities. By the way, if you ever need some, I have an incredible lemonade stand. Initially, all the studios rejected the script, and when the movie was completed, it remained in limbo at Warner Bros. However, Warner Bros. granted us permission to showcase it to other distributors and studios. This allowed us to screen it for potential buyers. Despite our efforts, every studio passed on it once again.

Have you ever reconnected with any of those who rejected it?

DOUGHERTY: Oh, I have. Absolutely.

What do they say now?

Dougherty: They have the attitude of "You win some, you lose some."

Creating a movie that gains a following is impressive, but you have managed to create a Halloween tradition. The reason why so many people are here is that Halloween feels incomplete without watching your movie. Sam can be seen in every Halloween store alongside the most legendary slasher icons.

DOUGHERTY: It's an incredible experience. I recently visited Salem, Massachusetts for the first time and it surpassed all my expectations. It's like stepping into a Halloween-themed Disneyland for horror enthusiasts. I highly recommend going there. While I was casually strolling around and engrossed in a phone conversation, something utterly surreal occurred. I suddenly turned around and caught sight of both Michael Myers and Sam stepping out of a car, holding hands and peacefully strolling down the street together. It was such a powerful and emotional moment that it nearly brought tears to my eyes. I completely understand the overwhelming reaction.

Image via Legendary

Now, let's delve into the character of Sam for a moment. I'd like to pose a similar question: In your mind, how did you envision Sam's appearance in the movie compared to how he actually appeared in the final film?

DOUGHERTY: Pretty much nailed it. Yeah, there wasn't much alteration. If you've seen the animated short, he bears a striking resemblance. The color scheme is identical, with only a minor variation in the mask. Apart from that, it's practically indistinguishable.

When working on the animated short, were you aware of his appearance without the mask?

DOUGHERTY: I didn't. I honestly didn't. It was a mystery even to me.

How did you come to the conclusion that that was what he needed to look like?

DOUGHERTY: I recently began sketching, drawing inspiration from my background in animation and illustration. When we were first trying to bring the movie to life, I took it upon myself to create concept art and sketches, incorporating Sam's appearance without the mask. The concept was to create a unique blend of a pumpkin and a baby skull, capturing the endearing qualities of baby skulls like their large eye sockets and overall adorableness.

I understand that discussing Sam's origin story is something you prefer to avoid, but I have three questions that I hope you can shed some light on. Firstly, I simply want to inquire whether there is anyone on Earth whom you have disclosed the complete origin of Sam to?

DOUGHERTY: None.

So literally no one knows?

DOUGHERTY: No.

It only exists in your head?

DOUGHERTY: Yes.

I'm gonna try for two other little details right now. One, is Sam immortal? Can anything kill Sam?

DOUGHERTY: I'm not gonna answer that question either.

I had a feeling. I had to try.

DOUGHERTY: Leaning towards immortal.

Sure, I'll take it!

DOUGHERTY: Yeah, one good point I'll give you is that we actually have a short film that establishes this. Fearnet used to air the movie for 24 hours on Halloween, and they asked me to create a series of short films to promote it. One of the shorts, titled "November 1st," shows the aftermath of a Halloween party. You enter a backyard filled with decorations and costumes, and there lies Sam's lifeless body. He appears as a shriveled and decayed corpse, wearing his pajamas, surrounded by pumpkin seeds and entrails scattered on the ground. Then, a single seed starts to wiggle and embeds itself into the soil. In my mind, he dies every November 1st, but certain others ensure that some seeds or entrails are preserved, allowing him to regrow every October.

I'll follow that up with one other question. Does that mean multiple Sams could grow?

DOUGHERTY: No.

Okay.

DOUGHERTY: I'll give you that rule.

Image via Legendary

Moving on to another creature design, let's talk about the werewolf segment that you mentioned earlier. Transforming a werewolf on screen is undoubtedly one of the most challenging feats to achieve. It can either succeed or fail without any in-between. When you approached the task of creating this transformation, did you follow any specific guidelines to ensure its authenticity and impact?

Dougherty's advice is to avoid relying solely on computer-generated imagery (CG) as it may not produce the desired result. Instead, he suggests using a combination of practical animatronic makeup effects, enhanced with CG if necessary, to achieve the desired outcome. However, in his opinion, nothing compares to the effectiveness of traditional foam latex.

One of the aspects I admire about this movie is its enduring quality. It looks just as impressive now as it did on the first day I watched it. The industry seems fixated on modern technology and the pursuit of new extravagant tools for filmmaking. Could you share an example of a technique you employed in creating this movie that continues to be valuable today? Perhaps something that you wish more filmmakers would embrace instead of relying heavily on large budgets, advanced equipment, and similar elements?

DOUGHERTY: Shooting on film. That's one. [Laughs] There is still a certain warmth to actual film that is incredibly difficult to achieve with digital methods. That's a fantastic question. I'm trying to think of other techniques. Could you provide me with a bit of assistance?

I like any practical creature element. And did I hear something in another interview about using a miniature for the bus going over?

DOUGHERTY: Oh yeah, that was a miniature.

The content is a mix of practical and visual effects. An actual short bus was thrown over a cliff, captured on camera. The sinking part, where it disappears in the water, was created using a miniature. The shot transitions to a rock quarry scene, where the miniature was combined with visual effects.

You can find me tomorrow at The Mystic Museum in Burbank, where the miniature is displayed. In addition to the miniature school bus and Charlie's severed head on a platter, they also offer candy, including suckers, and various other items. However, the most remarkable attraction is the enormous Sam, which is perfect for taking pictures with.

The shooting and editing techniques employed in the movie are integral to the effectiveness of many of its reveals. One standout moment is the presentation of his head on a platter, which is executed with precision framing and a well-timed cut. The result is a perfect and straightforward depiction.

DOUGHERTY: Credit must be given to the talented Simeon Wilkins, my storyboard artist. We dedicated a significant amount of time working together to create the storyboards. Personally, I find storyboards to be an invaluable tool. While some filmmakers prefer improvisation, I believe that storyboards were crucial in securing funding for the movie. Considering that this was my first film, there was some doubt and skepticism. To overcome this, I inundated the studio executives with concept art and storyboards to showcase my vision. On the day of shooting, I made sure to have them printed and steadily crossed them off as we progressed.

Out of all the segments in the movie, which one did you anticipate to be the most challenging during the production process? Ultimately, was it indeed the toughest or did another segment surprise you?

Can you identify a specific day on set where things didn't go as planned, and you had to adapt and ultimately discovered an unexpected magic that enhanced a scene beyond your original intentions?

It was meant to be.

DOUGHERTY: Yeah! I sacrificed a goat the night before, but yeah.

Oh, okay. That makes sense. Again, I would believe it.

After completing the filming of the movie, which segment stood out as your favorite? In hindsight, has this particular segment maintained its place as your favorite or has another unexpectedly grown on you more over the years?

DOUGHERTY: That's like asking to pick your favorite child.

Oh, I'm gonna ask you to pick your favorite child a couple of times.

DOUGHERTY: I have a slight preference for Sam over Kreeg due to my enjoyment of working with him and Brian Cox. The entire shooting experience was terrific, so it's difficult to choose.

That's understandable. I understand where you're coming from. While I do have a definite answer, I must say they are all fantastic.

Here's my other favorite child question; do you have a single favorite frame of this movie?

DOUGHERTY: Oh god, I can't think of one. Honestly.

There are several excellent ones. One of my favorites is the shot of the "School Bus Massacre". It comes right after the story transitions from the past to the present, and all five of them are standing at the edge of the quarry. The shot then cuts to a side view of them. I find it absolutely captivating.

DOUGHERTY: Oh, that's intriguing.

Something about that to me is just chilling coming out of that story and then seeing them there and knowing what lies ahead for them.

Image via Legendary

What was Brian Cox's initial response when you proposed the role to him?

DOUGHERTY: He simply said, "I have one condition. I want to resemble John Carpenter." "Sure thing, Brian, your wish is my command."

Was he ever open about the reason behind his specific request?

DOUGHERTY: Well, he believed it was a fitting homage to Halloween, understanding that Trick ‘r Treat owed its existence to John Carpenter and his film. Hence, he collaborated with a makeup artist to create a character with a hooked nose, scar, and untidy hair. However, as the tedious process of applying the makeup dragged on, he began to regret his decision. When we eventually finished shooting his scenes, he couldn't bear it any longer and impulsively tore off the prosthetic skin on his face, declaring, "Never again! Never again!"

I have a million follow-up questions.

Image via Legendary

Brian Cox's scare scene reactions in this film are absolutely fantastic. His screams are incredibly accurate and flawless. Have you ever witnessed him deliver such intense performances on set that made you realize he has the potential to reach Scream Queen levels?

DOUGHERTY: [Laughs] Working with Brian Cox is always a pleasure for me because he is so laid-back, yet he has this slightly grumpy demeanor. In real life, he's like a lovable curmudgeon.

Did he ask you to go away rudely?

DOUGHERTY: He didn't go that far, but no, he's a pleasure to work with and has shown tremendous support for the film since the start. He was even willing to attend Comic-Con to showcase it and participate in Q&As. I believe Brian Cox is unparalleled. He portrayed the original Hannibal Lecter, in case you weren't aware.

Can you share an instance on set when a member of the cast exceeded expectations and surprised you?

DOUGHERTY: Quinn Lord always stood out in this regard. He fully immersed himself in his character to the extent that his parents expressed concern. I recall them visiting the set one day, stating that Quinn would continue to stay in character even after leaving set. They shared their unease, mentioning how he would hide under beds at home. [Laughs]

I kind of appreciate that, though.

DOUGHERTY: Yeah, absolutely.

I would like to discuss the "School Bus Massacre" again and ask about the Buddha mask you mentioned. I have a few questions regarding this. Why was the mask given as a gift? Was it specifically made for the movie, or does your family know about your interest in masks?

DOUGHERTY: As part of our family's Vietnamese New Year celebration, one of my cousins crafted the mask out of papier-mâché and sent it to me. That's the extent of my recollection. I found it rather eerie and decided to incorporate it into the movie.

That’s awesome that it’s in the movie now.

DOUGHERTY: Well, that's a replica of the one that they sent me.

Image via Legendary

What about the other ones? Can you tell us some of the creative inspiration behind why you chose those particular looks for the other masks?

DOUGHERTY: I aimed to create masks that captured the authenticity of children's creations. As a devoted admirer of Halloween's rich history and folklore, I couldn't help but notice the stark contrast between the masks of today, produced by companies like Don Post and Spirit Halloween, and those of the past. If we delve into the Halloween festivities of the 1920s to 1940s, we encounter a multitude of homemade masks fabricated using papier-mâché, bags, glue, and a mishmash of miscellaneous items. This amalgamation of materials resulted in an eeriness that far surpassed what we witness in contemporary masks. Thus, I pondered what would transpire if a troupe of troubled children were handed a simple assortment of materials to fashion their own masks and costumes.

May I assume that you have retained props from the set?

DOUGHERTY: I was gifted some things. I never stole anything. Yes, I have some key items for sure.

Can you not tell us what they are? Because now I'm even more curious!

DOUGHERTY: No, I'm not gonna say. You guys are apparently putting this on YouTube.

I already said an F-bomb. No one's gonna be able to watch it now. [Laughs]

DOUGHERTY: I've got some treasures.

Image via Legendary

Alright. It’s time. Do you want the question you know I’m gonna ask?

DOUGHERTY: Here it comes. Is it the new Halloween tradition?

I can't help it.

DOUGHERTY: We have to. It’s the elephant in the room. Just go for it.

Any news on the sequel? Has there been any progress made so far?

DOUGHERTY: I understand. It seems like it has become a Halloween tradition to bring me out of the box of Halloween decorations and ask, "What's happening with the sequel?" Then I have to dodge the question, and articles are written about it. This has been going on ever since the movie was released. I don't mean to avoid the question.

I will say this, because we mentioned it last year at the Beyond Fest screening, Legendary is actively developing the sequel. We have multiple versions of the script written and have enlisted the same storyboard artist, Simeon Wilkins, and Breehn Burns for concept art. Progress is steady. I am eager to discuss the project with Legendary, as they have been fantastic collaborators. However, timing is crucial, especially since we recently experienced a strike. The next step, if all goes well, would involve assessing the budget, schedule, and other details. Nevertheless, we have a truly exceptional script for the sequel, which I co-wrote with Zach Shields and Todd Casey, my collaborators from Krampus. So, will we be calling it Trick 'r Treat Part 2?

DOUGHERTY: Well, we don't know yet. It's just the working title.

The working title is Trick ‘r Treat 2, and we came up with a proper nemesis for Sam that would give Brian Cox a run for his money.

I have numerous inquiries, and it's quite challenging. I'll ask you a follow-up question that I believe you can discuss. Besides factors like the strike and other setbacks, why did it take such a long time? Just consider this large crowd and the immense popularity of your movie. Why wasn't it fast-tracked and made a high priority?

DOUGHERTY: I didn't want to compromise on the quality of the film.

DOUGHERTY: While I appreciate and enjoy all of our beloved horror franchise characters, it is important to acknowledge that not all of them have reached the same level of greatness. Undoubtedly, we have developed an affection for even the weaker installments in our favorite horror series. These films often possess a certain cheesy charm. However, if I were to create a sequel, my aim would be to surpass or at least match the quality of the original. Achieving excellence requires time and effort. I certainly wouldn't want to witness the creation of Trick 'r Treat Part 9: Sam Goes to Space, despite the potential intrigue it holds. [Laughs]

I would be interested in watching that. Now, here's a question that has been on my mind - is it possible for Billy to return for a sequel of Trick 'r Treat?

DOUGHERTY: Anything is possible, but personally, I lean towards the idea of each sequel being independent. This would introduce a new set of characters, with Sam being the consistent one among them all.

Image via Universal Pictures

I have one more question related to Krampus since you mentioned it, as I am also enthralled by Krampus. Have you ever considered creating a follow-up to the film? I would be highly interested in exploring how a different family coped with an encounter with Krampus.

DOUGHERTY: We also have a concept for a sequel. Instead of focusing mainly on a family, it revolves around a group of strangers who find themselves trapped somewhere.

Can we forever keep you involved in holiday horror?

DOUGHERTY: Coming soon, Mike Dougherty’s Passover.

I would watch that, too.

DOUGHERTY: [Laughs] I know, the angel of death is terrifying!

Trick 'r Treat

Release Date November 27, 2015Director Michael DoughertyCast Anna Paquin, Brian Cox, Dylan Baker, Rochelle AytesRating RMain Genre Horror