Unlocking the Secrets: How Wonder Devs Push the Boundaries of Super Mario Bros to Spark Innovation

The Mario franchise has consistently delivered fresh, fun, and intriguing gameplay concepts in both 2D and 3D adventures. This focus on exploring new ideas has made Mario a beloved part of the gaming industry.

Super Mario Bros. Wonder, the latest entry in the 2D side-scrolling Mario games, takes this commitment to innovation even further. Unlike previous games in the series, Wonder introduces new concepts and unexpected twists at a rapid pace, ensuring a game filled with exciting ideas and surprises.

Our Website's Tamoor Hussain and Lucy James interviewed Nintendo's Shiro Mouri and Takashi Tezuka, director and producer of the Super Mario Bros. Wonder game, during PAX West 2023. They discussed Nintendo's new approach to the game's design and development, as well as its impact. Translations were provided by Nintendo's representatives.

Our Website: Could you share your intentions and goals for this game? How did you aim to differentiate it from previous 2D Mario games while also incorporating familiar elements?

Mouri: When developing this new 2D Mario game, we focused on two main concepts: "packed with secrets and mysteries" and "freedom of choice." Let's start with the first concept - packed with secrets and mysteries. The original Super Mario Bros. was known for its abundance of hidden secrets and mysterious elements. For example, players could uncover secrets by grabbing a mushroom to grow bigger or by venturing down a seemingly obstructive pipe that led to a secret underground area. These elements added an element of intrigue to the game.

However, we soon realized that a new challenge had arisen - these secrets and mysteries had become standardized in our games. To overcome this challenge, we aimed to reinvent the classic methods of accessing secrets, such as going down a pipe or climbing a vine. Our solution was to introduce the concept of warping to a different area when grabbing an item. We presented this idea to Mr. Tezuka, who questioned its uniqueness, suggesting that we should consider changing the player's location instead of simply warping to a different area.

So I pondered, "Change, alright." Instead of focusing on a single specific area or aspect of the course undergoing transformation, I contemplated, "Why not revolutionize the entire course?" Consequently, we experimented with various ideas. For instance, what if the pipes started wriggling about and sprang to life? What if the entire screen tilted in a single direction? What if we had to traverse atop a swarm of adversaries? And thus, Wonder was conceived.

Tezuka: Undoubtedly, crafting just one Wonder entailed an immense amount of effort. Therefore, when I initially proposed this, I envisioned the possibility of having a few Wonders scattered across different courses. However, I then suggested, "I realize it would be a tremendous undertaking, but what if we created a unique Wonder for each and every main course?"

Mouri: Creating a Wonder is a laborious process, but it becomes even more challenging when we also need to design a course that is enjoyable both with and without the Wonder effect after obtaining the Wonder Flower. This applies to all of our main courses.

Following Mr. Tezuka's suggestion, we embarked on this journey and came to realize something important. In order to achieve our initial concept of a game filled with secrets and mysteries, we need to ensure that every single main course includes a Wonder. To achieve this, we sought ideas from our entire team, regardless of their experience or department within Nintendo. We received over 2,000 ideas and carefully selected the ones with the most potential.

And once we created prototypes of the potential ones, we brainstormed ideas on how to make them more enjoyable or interesting. The entire team collaborated in this process, allowing us to successfully include a different Wonder in each main course.

Tezuka: During the early stages of development, we were uncertain about what the Wonder would be and if we could even achieve it. However, our goal was to ensure that each course had a Wonder. To meet this objective, we decided not to impose a specific deadline for creating the Wonders. We believed that once we were able to create them consistently, we could establish a schedule with a deadline. However, we wanted to avoid giving people an excuse to say they couldn't meet the schedule or deadline.

The Mario games exhibit great creativity, but typically focus on one core idea that is explored in various ways. However, this particular game seems to be a collection of multiple Mario concepts. Did the team encounter any challenges when adapting to this approach and potentially deviating from the tried-and-true formula? Or was it effortless for them to generate these ideas and merge them together?

Tezuka: We did aim for a different development style compared to our previous projects, and I believe everyone was excited about it. Our goal was to create an environment where everyone felt encouraged to contribute their ideas right from the start. Instead of following a predetermined formula or concept, we wanted our team to actively help us establish the foundation or core elements for Wonder. For instance, the sound staff usually joins the development process around halfway through, focusing solely on their own tasks. However, this time around, they were involved right from the initial stages. We actively sought ideas from our sound team, although we haven't fully revealed or discussed all of them. There are many intriguing concepts and content in the game that originated from our sound team. I believe they experienced a different development process compared to their previous endeavors, and were able to enjoy it.

I am particularly interested in the absence of a timer on the level, which led me to contemplate the pace at which one plays a Mario game, especially one that is filled with so many creative ideas. Is your intention with Wonder to encourage a slower and more immersive playing experience, allowing players to explore, solve puzzles, and have fun with the game's tools?

Mouri: Firstly, I would like to emphasize that, at its core, a [2D] Mario game is not meant to be an exploration-focused game. It is primarily designed for players to start from the beginning and reach the goalpost. However, when we were brainstorming for this game, the concept of freedom of choice emerged. This led us to question the purpose of the timer. So, we decided to take a risk and remove the timer. Surprisingly, we found that even without the timer, the primary objective of reaching the goalpost remained intact, while providing players with a greater sense of freedom and choice. This realization ultimately influenced our decision to implement this idea.

Tezuka: The existence of the timer in Mario games has an intriguing backstory. When playing, there are moments when players feel stuck or trapped, unable to progress. However, the presence of a timer compels them to find a way past that point. The timer is actually a remnant of the original creation of Mario titles, and it has become such a fundamental aspect of the game. Recently, our younger staff members debated whether it could be safely removed, sparking interesting conversations.

Another aspect I find fascinating is the decision to make the camera follow the main character exclusively. It seems to promote more thoughtful cooperation amongst players. I'm curious about the reasoning behind this choice.

Mouri: The decision to create a more cooperative environment was intentional. We invested a significant amount of time in trial and error and brainstorming to determine how we would address the camera, particularly in multiplayer mode. In previous consoles like the Wii, the camera would pan when two characters moved in opposite directions, which worked well. However, with the Nintendo Switch, tabletop mode presented a new challenge. When playing in tabletop mode, the camera's panning created small and difficult-to-see visuals, affecting gameplay. To overcome this, we opted for a camera that remains stable rather than constantly zooming in or out. This approach offers a more comfortable gameplay experience, taking into account the fit for the Nintendo Switch, stability, and the need to foster a cooperative environment. Hence, we adopted a camera that follows the player with the crown, rather than zooming in and out.

As for the badge system, we developed it through a creative process. It adds value to the 2D Mario experience by introducing new gameplay elements and enhancing player engagement.

Mouri suggested that in previous Mario games, characters had specific abilities, such as Peach being floaty and Luigi having a high jump. However, some players may have desired a floaty Mario or a Toad with high jumping ability. In addition to secrets and mysteries, the idea of freedom of choice was also important. As a result, they concluded that it would be better to allow players to select their desired character and then add the desired abilities. This led to the creation of the badge system.

The badge system allows players to add any action they want to their character. It's not only limited to actions, as there are badges that can automatically rescue players when they fall into a pit, serving as a rescue option for beginners. There are also badges designed for advanced players, such as the ability to become invisible. This system allows the game to cater to both novice and advanced players, making their gameplay experience enjoyable.

Tezuka explained that in Mario games, there are courses that demand specific techniques to be mastered in order to progress. However, in this particular title, players have more options and their own ideas become crucial choices. Tezuka believes that incorporating Mr. Mouri's concept allows players to think of various ways to play according to their preferences, ultimately moving towards the goal of providing freedom in gameplay and choice.

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In previous multiplayer Mario games, players had the ability to physically interact with each other, with both positive and negative outcomes. However, in Wonder, this dynamic has changed. Was there a specific reason from past games where interaction was possible that led to a reevaluation for Wonder?

Mouri: Initially, we did have character collision in development. However, this time we introduced the big Elephant Mario and the tall Mario with Wonder effects. When these two characters collide, it creates a level of stress that was never seen before. One of our main focuses for multiplayer this time was to create a stress-free experience. After removing collision completely, we found that it provided a smooth and stress-free experience. Another advantage is that without collision, players can safely land on narrow platforms and make jumps without interference. Additionally, the absence of collision creates an entirely new multiplayer experience. This is why we decided to move forward with this specification.

The characters in the game are incredibly expressive. What was the idea behind placing a greater emphasis on making the characters more expressive?

Tezuka: Previously, our development focused heavily on creating gimmicks, items, and enemy characters, leaving limited room for expressions. However, for the development of Wonder, we decided to give the team the freedom to create as they wished. Players responded positively to the expressive nature of the game, as our designers, artists, programmers, and sound designers all approached it with the same vision. We were able to incorporate these expressions and animations into levels, highlighting them effectively.

To begin with, let me clarify that our intention is not to specifically create an animal character. Our focus primarily lies on delivering an engaging gameplay experience. Regarding the choice of Elephant Mario, we aimed to achieve three key objectives. Firstly, by enlarging the character's body, it becomes more convenient to interact with blocks, defeat enemies, and gather coins. We believed that altering the fundamental mechanics of Mario's movements could bring a revitalizing element to the game. Secondly, the ability to hit blocks from the side creates an opportunity for players to access exclusive areas only through this transformation.

The third feature is the ability to spray water. We came up with an idea based on a withered flower that reacts when watered. This concept aligns with our theme of being "packed full of secrets and mysteries," adding depth to the gameplay experience. Alongside two other gameplay elements - a larger body and the ability to hit blocks from the side - we brainstormed extensively to find the best way to implement these features. Surprisingly, an elephant emerged as the only optimal solution after much contemplation.

Both of you have dedicated a significant amount of time to working on Mario, contributing to numerous beloved 2D installments. Mario is a unique franchise that has successfully maintained its relevance and freshness, even with the introduction of new elements like the 3D games. How do you believe Mario manages to consistently evolve while maintaining its classic essence, enabling different experiences to coexist?

Tezuka believes that the core gameplay of 2D Mario has remained unchanged and continues to provide enjoyment through the player's journey from start to finish and their own personal improvement. The introduction of younger staff members has added new ideas for fun gameplay experiences. As the team has grown, the goals and aspirations for each title have evolved. Comparing it to past titles, Tezuka notes that there is now more creative talent involved, allowing for Mario games to be tailored to each generation and age group. The same principles of creation apply to 3D Mario as well. Both 2D and 3D Mario offer different pleasures and Tezuka believes that neither will replace the other. Nintendo plans to continue creating both 2D and 3D Mario experiences in the future.

Tezuka expressed that there is definitely a sense of pressure when creating a new 2D Mario game. The team puts in a lot of effort and emotion into the development process, but they can only determine if the game is truly enjoyable for consumers once it is released. Therefore, they eagerly anticipate seeing how the game is received by players.