Inside the Oval Office: Unveiling the 2020 Photo-op and Trump's Briefing on Fake Electors and January 6
Exclusive recordings reveal a pivotal Oval Office photo-op in 2020, where lawyers were warned not to raise false hopes of overturning the election for Trump A Michigan probe and Wisconsin offered no hope Intriguing insights into a critical moment
Prior to a photo opportunity with then-President Donald Trump in December 2020, a group of attorneys were instructed not to give Trump false hope about overturning the election results. Jim Troupis, who had just led Trump's failed election challenge in Wisconsin, candidly informed the president that it was over in that state.
When the topic turned to Arizona, attorney Kenneth Chesebro veered off course from the original plan and told Trump that he still had a chance to win. He mentioned the "alternate electors" he had organized in Arizona and six other states, which could provide Trump with a means to keep contesting the election until Congress certified the results on January 6, 2021.
Chesebro's positive remarks immediately caused issues by giving Trump a sense of renewed optimism about staying in office. Former RNC chairman Reince Priebus left the meeting feeling "extremely concerned" about the January 6 discussion. Priebus, a Wisconsin native who served as Trump's first chief of staff, later cautioned Troupis and Chesebro not to disclose what occurred to anyone.
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This compelling narrative is recounted by Chesebro, who was interviewed by Michigan state prosecutors last week regarding the hoax involving fake electors. CNN has obtained the exclusive audio of this interview, revealing previously undisclosed information about the crucial Oval Office meeting.
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Chesebro describes what he told Trump about fake electors
Pro-Trump lawyer Kenneth Chesebro informs Michigan prosecutors about his meeting with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office on December 16, 2020. The recording has been edited for clarity. Chesebro recounts conveying to Trump the significance of the January 6 deadline.
According to CNN, the Michigan attorney general has charged the 16 Republican electors who cast fraudulent ballots in Lansing. The investigation is still ongoing, with fifteen of the electors pleading not guilty and one having their charges dropped through a cooperation deal.
The December 16, 2020 meeting, described by Chesebro as a "photo-op gone south," has brought to light a previously undisclosed instance of Trump being directly informed of his loss, which may play a role in his federal election subversion trial. It also demonstrates how individuals in Trump's inner circle supported his delusions and contributed to his unrealistic attempt to retain power.
As was often the case, Trump chose to hear only what he wanted to hear, dismissing Troupis and embracing Chesebro's theories. He continued to inaccurately claim victory in Wisconsin and elsewhere, even going so far as to attempt to use the illegitimate GOP electors on January 6 to "disenfranchise millions of voters," as stated in his federal indictment.
Giving Trump false hope
CNN has previously named Chesebro as an unindicted co-conspirator in Trump's federal case. His involvement in Michigan and other states could strengthen special counsel Jack Smith's prosecution, even though it's currently uncertain whether Chesebro plans to cooperate directly with Smith.
The Wisconsin Supreme Court rejected Trump's lawsuit to nullify the state's election results on December 14, 2020. Days later, Troupis and other GOP lawyers involved in the case flew to Washington, DC, to participate in a Senate hearing about election issues and also secured a conciliatory Oval Office photo-op with Trump.
Chesebro told Michigan prosecutors that there was a deliberate effort to prevent Trump from feeling hopeful about the possibility of overturning the election. "Our marching orders were: Don't say anything that makes him feel more positive than the beginning of the meeting."
It's unclear who instructed the group of pro-Trump attorneys to take action, but Chesebro reassured Trump that he could still win in Arizona. He also explained the fake electors' strategy, in which Trump supporters in seven key states would cast counterfeit ballots and falsely claim to be the legitimate electors.
Chesebro told Michigan state investigators that he explained Arizona was still a possibility as the alternate electors had voted. He later emphasized that this made it clear to Trump, in a way that it hadn't been before, that they had until January 6 to win. He also mentioned that this created a significant problem.
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Chesebro discusses the repercussions of his remarks in the Oval Office
Kenneth Chesebro, a lawyer who supports President Trump, has spoken to Michigan prosecutors about the consequences of his comments to President Trump during a photo-op on December 16, 2020. The recording has been edited for clarity.
Chesebro tells prosecutors about the reaction Reince Priebus had to the Dec. 16,
2020 meeting
Chesebro tells prosecutors about concern over what he had told President Trump
Source: Obtained by CNN
According to a source who spoke to CNN, Priebus, visibly angry, intervened to end the conversation after witnessing Chesebro whispering to Trump about election procedures during a photo-op he arranged for his home-state delegation. When questioned about the incident, a lawyer for Chesebro stated, "It was a brief interaction during a photo-op, and Trump spoke to many people."
Kenneth Chesebro converses with Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee in a courtroom as he agrees to a plea deal offered by the Fulton County District Attorney at the Fulton County Courthouse on October 20, 2023 in Atlanta, Georgia.
Alyssa Pointer/Getty Images/File
The aftermath was immediate. Following the meeting, Priebus expressed "extreme concern" over Chesebros remarks about January 6, as stated by Chesebro to Michigan investigators. Priebus, according to Chesebro, was going to take steps to minimize any potential fallout caused by the comments.
Two days later, Chesebro received a stern email from Troupis. The message, obtained by CNN, stated, "Reince was very clear in emphasizing that nothing from our meeting with the President should be disclosed to anyone. The political landscape is complex and volatile, and neither you nor I have the ability to navigate it." Some aspects of the meeting had been previously documented by The Washington Post.
Michigan probe casts wide net
CNN previously reported that Chesebro has been collaborating with state investigators in Michigan, Nevada, Wisconsin, and Georgia. He was indicted alongside Trump and 17 others in Georgia, where he pleaded guilty in October to participating in the electors conspiracy. (Trump pleaded not guilty.) Chesebro has not been charged anywhere else, and he hopes his state-level cooperation will keep it that way.
During several hours of interviews last week, Chesebro shared remarkable details with Michigan investigators about how a legal memo he wrote for Troupis in Wisconsin evolved into a nationwide effort to overturn the results of a presidential election, as recorded in the audio obtained by CNN.
CNN previously reported that the investigation is ongoing and is being overseen by Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, a Democrat, who has received backlash from Republicans who view her actions as a partisan effort to criminalize constitutionally protected political actions.
During the audio, Nessels team interrogated Chesebro with inquiries regarding senior Trump campaign operatives and focused on their involvement in directing fake electors in Michigan. The investigators probed into the roles of individuals such as former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, his ally and former NYPD commissioner Bernie Kerik, Trump campaign official Mike Roman, current Trump lawyer Boris Epshteyn, Trump 2020 campaign lawyers Matt Morgan and Justin Clark, and several others.
Chesebro described the situation as "very fluid," with all the players involved. When Michigan investigators questioned Chesebro, they delved into the details: Who created the fake certificates signed by GOP electors? Who recruited the Michigan participants? How were the signed certificates transported from Lansing to D.C.?
He directed investigators to Giuliani, who was strongly advocating for the concept of alternate electors, and mentioned that Kerik oversaw much of the organizational activities in Michigan. Chesebro stated that Roman was highly effective at executing operational tasks, which is why he was chosen as the lead person for assisting with the "whipping" operation on a state-by-state level.
Kerik and Clark did not provide a comment for this story, and a representative for Epshteyn could not be reached for comment. There was no response to CNN's inquiries from Giuliani, Roman, and Morgan.
Zero hope in Wisconsin
Several individuals, including Giuliani and Roman, were charged in Georgia for their involvement in the electors plot. Both Giuliani and Roman entered a plea of not guilty. Additionally, Giuliani is implicated as an unindicted co-conspirator in Trump's federal case.
In the federal case against Trump, prosecutors emphasized how his allies consistently informed him of his election loss, forming the basis of Smith's accusation that Trump continued to spread his false claims of election fraud despite being aware of their falsehood. Chesebros' recent disclosures to Michigan investigators further contribute to this pattern, with Troupis, a former judge, directly informing Trump that there were no further options left in Wisconsin after the state's Supreme Court rejected his case.
Chesebro informs Michigan prosecutors that during a meeting at the White House on Dec. 16, 2020, Trump's lawyer, Jim Troupis, directly informed President Trump that he had lost Wisconsin and that there was no possibility of overturning the defeat.
Chesebro informed Michigan prosecutors that Troupis personally told the President that there was no hope for Wisconsin. Chesebro believes that this message was designed to pressure the President into conceding or giving up the unlikely challenge.
He stated that the attempt was to manipulate information being presented to the client in a less than transparent manner. He thought that Troupis had exaggerated the conclusiveness of the Wisconsin challenge.
CNN's request for comment from Troupis went unanswered.
Despite being informed that Joe Biden's victory in Wisconsin could not be reversed, Trump pressured then-Vice President Mike Pence to reject the state's Democratic electors on January 6 while he oversaw the congressional certification of the 2020 results.
During Trump's speech on January 6, he falsely claimed that "we won Wisconsin" and alleged that Democrats facilitated 91,000 "unlawful votes" through dropboxes and 170,000 "illegal" votes via mail-in ballots. These same allegations were previously raised in a lawsuit Troupis took to the Wisconsin Supreme Court but were ultimately dismissed.
CNNs Zachary Cohen contributed to this report.
